Thursday, 10 October 2013

McDonald's saves TD Dick

Artist impression of the restored Tumble Down Dick & cleaned up site

Last night the Development Control Committee, chaired by the young, talented and Tory Cllr Gareth Lyons had the task of considering the application to convert the Tumbledown Dick into a McDonalds restaurant and drive-through, which had been recommended by Rushmoor Planning officers for approval.   

The meeting was, as expected, well attended by a little over 100 members of the public. Given the hype I was surprised there were no television crews present other than a cameraman from the poorly read Aldershot / Farnborough News Group (part of the Guardian group I believe) - I understand they have put details on their web site which I assume has more readers than their local rag.  I have nothing against the local paper - just find it incredibly boring and unimaginative to the point I have stopped buying it. The Council also have details on their web site - www.rushmoor.gov.uk

The report prepared by officers was comprehensive and precisely set out the issues. The Chairman, Cllr Lyon, handled the meeting extremely professionally. Fran Beauchamp, Chair of the Friends of the TDD, spoke against the application and a representative from McDonalds spoke in favour.  After a discussion the recommendation was approved 7 for and 3 against which means the plans can now go ahead. Which means McD now saves the TD Dick

I for one will be extremely pleased to see the area cleaned up at last, and the site used and enjoyed by local families. I'm lovin it....


149 comments:

Anonymous said...

David

And I for one will be here to catalogue every single one of the very likely side effects of permitting this. Sadly your own Empress Ward will bear a good deal of that, as will anyone who passes through or visits.

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't a more apt title for this piece be: "Goodbye David Clifford, hello new councillor at the next election"?

Anonymous said...

sadly i think you guys have got this one wrong.
another fast food outlet in our town. you only had to drive half a mile down the road with your family to "love it " as you state.
fast forward a few years and lets see how many fat kids are strolling around town , loving being overweight and straining our local nhs.
do you really believe another mcD was required in our town ?
the planning team should hang there heads in shame

Anonymous said...

Wow, what an arrogant response to a poor decision. Please remember who you work for.... The public.. The same public who are deeply hurt and aggrieved by this situation. Maybe next time try not to sound like such a smug idiot.

Matthew Hedges said...

Sorry, Is this a real article?

Poor David Clifford, I sincerely hope that he gets to proof read things that are put on his page as this really has made him come across as a total Dick (pun intended.

This post is two thirds moaning about a local paper and one third advising that he is happy about a change to the area that he seems to have very little idea about.

As a politician he seems to have very little understanding as to how to present a point, provide more than just personal opinion and at the very least seem affable enough to listen to.

Anonymous said...

A disgraceful decision against massive local public opinion amid an air of corruption. The elections will soon be with us Mr Clifford.

Anonymous said...

If you hadn't before, this post has lost you my vote. Ashamed to live in the ward of such a pompous, arrogant, peon. And yes I do mean peon. Not that you adhere to the description. A councillor should represent their electorate, no? Therefore rendering them in 'servitude' of sorts to those who have placed them in their position of work. The distain for local press and local people you display in this post is utterly disgusting. For shame Cllr. Clifford, for shame.

Anonymous said...

I don't know if it's your face I hate or your awful views but there's something. I for one had issues with the FOTTDD campaign, but at least they tried to do something for the area. Enjoy whatever body parts you had greased for now because I think you'll be off to the job centre soon. Then we'll all be 'lovin it!' PRICK!!

Anonymous said...

I guess you don't agree with your own policy then?
https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/reducing-obesity-and-improving-diet

Are you sponsored by McDonalds?

RJ said...

Wow, a local councillor who can't be bothered to read the local paper... bet you're well up on what's going on in Rushmoor then. Pathetic...

Dave B said...

Wow, probably would have been better for you if you had simply said nothing. Even the voters of Empress ward will find it hard to support someone this arrogant.

Claire said...

How utterly disappointing.

Where is the David Clifford who raised money for a homeless charity and spoke so passionately of his hopes for the future of Rushmoors young people?

It is vile to read this and disgusting to learn that you feel the need to be so publicly overjoyed at a decision that so many people are hurt by.

I have lost any respect I had for you and certainly last night learned on a personal level what damage the Conservative party can do when they are the majority.

Anonymous said...

I think Mr. Clifford will be neding his brown envelope payout to support himself whilst unemployed, i hope it was worth it.

Whilst typing this i can see a poll "What one thing listed does Farnborough need more of?". There is an option "family restaurant", well there are other options other than a macdonalds, did you consider that?

This has lost my conservative vote, lost my faith in politicians who are supposed to work for the people, not for personal gain.

The blog at the bottom of this page talks of councellor Lyons as being "open minded", a closed book in my opinion.

Go give yourselves more pats on the backs and golden handshakes while the youth increase in size you smug gits.

Anonymous said...

I think Mr. Clifford will be neding his brown envelope payout to support himself whilst unemployed, i hope it was worth it.

Whilst typing this i can see a poll "What one thing listed does Farnborough need more of?". There is an option "family restaurant", well there are other options other than a macdonalds, did you consider that?

This has lost my conservative vote, lost my faith in politicians who are supposed to work for the people, not for personal gain.

The blog at the bottom of this page talks of councellor Lyons as being "open minded", a closed book in my opinion.

Go give yourselves more pats on the backs and golden handshakes while the youth increase in size you smug gits.

Anonymous said...

Wow. I don't really care for the Tumbledown or for McDonald's but this blog post just makes you look like a total cretin.

Tom Stone said...

Hi David,

I have to say that that is about the most chilling and utterly disgusting piece of writing that I have EVER seen written by a councilor.

Simply the fact that you sign the piece off with 'I'm loving it' shows what a shallow little twerp you are. I geniunely think that you have over stepped a line with this blog and it's dismissal of anything that was against what you clearly believed in from the start.

Remember for one second who you work for. You are a public servant not a McDonalds employee and I find the tone and content of this blog utterly disgusting. I hope you choke on a big mac you disease of a human being.

Anonymous said...

Clearly been payed off by McDonalds to vote in their favour
Disgusting and appalling abuse of power

Anonymous said...

You, Sir, are an absolute disgrace. Good Luck with canvassing next time round....you'll be out on your ear

WE'RE LOVIN' IT....

Aidan Powers said...

Why the need for the gloating? Why would you want to publicly say you do not have any time for local press and disregard the groundswell of public opinion against this development? Typical of the arrogant 'we know whats best for you' attitude of a lot of the Councillors I heard speak last night I'm afraid.

Aidan Powers said...

Why the need for the gloating? Why would you want to publicly say you do not have any time for local press and disregard the groundswell of public opinion against this development? Typical of the arrogant 'we know whats best for you' attitude of a lot of the Councillors that I heard speak last night I'm afraid.

Aidan Powers said...

Why the need for the gloating? Why would you want to publicly say you do not have any time for local press and disregard the groundswell of public opinion against this development? Typical of the arrogant 'we know whats best for you' attitude of a lot of the Councillors that I heard speak last night I'm afraid.

Anonymous said...

David

I genuinely believed this was a ‘parody’ website after reading this ‘blog post’. I find your comments distasteful and hugely disrespectful towards those you represent. You do not represent the interests of McDonalds, though your comments suggest to me that you are more closely aligned to the corporation than those you are elected to represent. To think you can behave in this manner on such a hugely sensitive local issue is staggering, I am disappointed in the extreme.

Steve – not voting for you.

Aidan Powers said...

Why the need for the gloating? Why would you want to publicly say you do not have any time for local press and disregard the groundswell of public opinion against this development? Typical of the arrogant 'we know whats best for you' attitude of a lot of the Councillors that I heard speak last night I'm afraid.

Anonymous said...

David

I genuinely believed this was a ‘parody’ website after reading this ‘blog post’. I find your comments distasteful and hugely disrespectful towards those you represent. You do not represent the interests of McDonalds, though your comments suggest to me that you are more closely aligned to the corporation than those you are elected to represent. To think you can behave in this manner on such a hugely sensitive local issue is staggering, I am disappointed in the extreme.

Steve – not voting for you.

Aidan Powers said...

Why the need for the gloating? Why would you want to publicly say you do not have any time for local press and disregard the groundswell of public opinion against this development? Typical of the arrogant 'we know whats best for you' attitude of a lot of the Councillors that I heard speak last night I'm afraid.

clipparbabe said...

I am disgusted that you show so little compassion for the people of Farnborough! I was born and raised here and the Tumbly has always been well loved. YOU obviously need to lose your post next election! I WILL NEVER VOTE CONSERVATIVE AGAIN!!!!!

Aidan Powers said...

Sorry, Seemed to have posted my comments many times. This is not an attempt to spam the blog, just that I did not get a confirmation message so tried again (several times)....

Anonymous said...

After sitting through the meeting at the counsil office last night and hearing the apauling arguments your constituents rallied behind I am ashamed to be part of a town with such a biggoted counsil. Suffice to say that's a few thousand votes lost.

David Clifford said...

Can I make it absolutely clear that I would have preferred a Nando's on this site and have never taken any money only burgers from McDonald's which I paid for - most of the time.

I am not gloating as some suggest, but glad the debate is over and the site can finally, after so many years, be cleaned up. It would have been a very long time since families would have enjoyed this venue.

So I'm still lovin it...

David Stephenson said...

You need a better PR person mate, you have made yourself look like a complete ioke. In your case not hard to do.

Anonymous said...

The site could have been cleaned up a long time ago if the council had done their job and pushed Bride Hall to tidy up. There was not many letters sent out to them and then only when the public sent letters to enquire what was happening regarding the Tumbledown and its dilapidated state.
The people cared about the Tumbledown more than the councilors.
This is still the case and the fight goes on.
I was at the meeting last night and disgusted with some of the councilors and there lack of knowledge about the history of the building. Also it was like they hadn't read anyone's letters of Objection.They were so interested in what was and not what could be.They were so out of touch with the public and a lot of what was said was laughable. It has given some of us a wake up call as to whats happening within our council.

Anonymous said...

What arrogance... totally ignoring the groundswell of local voices against the McDonalds application with a trite 'I'm lovin it'? Could you be more out of touch? How about a word or two about the passionate anti-McD campaign? You really could not sound more self-serving...

Anonymous said...

Agree with the comments re the pompous gloating. I think a lot of people knew this would be the ultimate outcome, but putting that aside, is there a need for such a badly written blog? Surely there is irony in you slating the local newspapers bad writing? Snotty jibes and a love for Nandos; Good to know we have a stroppy teenager in charge.

Emily Johnson said...

There is not really much to say that hasn't already been said.
I genuinely thought this was a spoof but you really are this smug!

Publicly announcing that you don't even read the local papers is just shooting yourself in the foot. You are meant to be a big part of this town but you can't even be bothered to read the local news.

Regardless of what your thoughts are/were on the Tumbledown, you need to appreciate that some people are genuinely upset by this news.
I myself spent a good few years drinking at the Tumbly and Q was my first ever 'club night' so I am slightly attached and I am upset that this has happened.

What this town doesn't need is ANOTHER family restauraunt. We have so many it’s getting beyond a joke now.
What this town does need is to get its culture back, to have bands playing again, to have good local pub quizzes, to have some form of night life!

You may not agree with me and I don't agree with you but I certainly wouldn't be this smug if I was you.

You have publicly embarrassed yourself in front of the Town which you are meant to be a part of, I live in your ward and I definitely not be sending my vote your way.

David Clifford said...

I certainly do not feel arrogant or smug. I am always keen to admit mistakes and acknowledge that I do not have all the answers. However, there are two sides to this issue, and many people above think it blasphemous to suggest there is another view.

There are many residents that actually are happy the site is being cleared up and have told me they are delighted the old pub is not re-opening and how awful it was.

I suggest some of the anonymous "know alls" above stand as independents or "save our local Pub" candidates next year and let us see how well supported your aspirations for the community are.

Aidan Powers said...

David Clifford,

Unfortunately people who are deemed 'arrogant and smug' rarely see this trait in themselves. It is a perception that other form based on the action of those that they see it in.
Sorry if this make me a 'know it all'.

Emily said...

David,

No one is suggesting that it is 'blasphemous to suggest there is another view'.
People are simply stating that you have come across very badly and i agree.

Stating that you don't read the local paper is just shooting yourself.

You have come across as someone who knows little about the area he is meant to serve and THAT is why people are annoyed.

Alot of the supporters of Save the Tumbledown (myself included) realised that this would be the outcome but it really is a sad state that a place that holds so many memories is going to be a faceless fast food outlet.

I personally wish that the site could have been cleaned up earlier too but it is what it is and the way you have come across is pretty snug and arrogant.

You have lost alot of support with this post.

The last paragraph of your responce is enough to make my blood boil.

Anonymous said...

You only have to click on the survey on the right to realise what a shame this is. "What One Thing Listed Does Farnborough Need More of?", when you click to see the results, 'Theatre/Music Venue' is way out in front.

Unfortunately this was always going to happen with The Tumbledown Dick? Was there anyway of stopping the powerhouse force of McDonalds? Not really. You only have to look at the majority of highstreets across England to realise who and what is surviving.

However, our local politicians did have a chance to make a difference, try and make a change, but unfortunately bottled it.

I also find it utterly disgusting how anyone can be so pleased to see a McDonalds open in their community. Regardless of what it replaces, regardless of the opportunities lost and the fact we have one at Farnborough Gate. This man is genuinely pleased and feels we have a site to be enjoyed by local families. That really is sad and depressing.
I for one will not be taking my family for an enjoyable day out at McDonalds. Luckily as a family we have more imagination when it comes to fun when eating out.

And on a more personal night I would like to say how much I enjoyed The Tumbledown. Me and my band played some awesome gigs there in our teens. I met some awesome people there and have great memories from there. Luckily I still have Guildford & Aldershot for some local music.

Claire said...

What an excellent idea David, I for one will be giving it some serious thought, who knows, maybe I can get some more healthy kids initiatives created!

I am not a member of a political party, just a member of the public and so my work for the community does not have an agenda to it for a party line to whistle.

Maybe that's what would really make Localism more community friendly.

Oh my slogan can be 'People not politics'.

Anonymous said...

"there are two sides to this issue, and many people above think it blasphemous to suggest there is another view"

You are absolutely entitled to your view and I support your right to voice it. However, whether you like it or not, the tone comes across as arrogant, gloating and dismissive. The final 'lovin it' sign off is crass, in poor taste and implies (rightly or wrongly) a less than impartial stance shall we say. The site needed clearing up - fine - but as someone else on here has pointed out it was (and is) up to RBC to ensure that the owners did not allow the site to become an eyesore. That the The Tumbledown Dick needed some form of makeover/refurb is beyond question - what Farnborough does NOT need is another sprawling burger bar to complement the other McDonalds at Farnborough Gate and the suggestion that this is in any way beneficial to the town borders on imbecilic. Obesity levels soar yet RBC seems to think that fuelling the problem is the answer, increased strain on local health services is a long term consequence.

As for your 'know-alls' comment - really....if you had any shred of intuition about you you'd revisit your original post and reword such drivel. I'd suggest a modicom of humility and perhaps a degree of media training to boot.

Your post embodies the precise reason why so many people fail to engage with local politicians - with luck we'll see the back of you come election time.

Anonymous said...

Not really bothered, or affected by the cleared planning permission. But this post is absolutely insulting to the people of Farnborough.

For starters, should you not be conservative about any passed actions? knowing how much (or maybe not judging by your cretinous views towards the local newspaper) the venue meant to the local community, surely a sensitive post should have been in order.

Secondly, does this not completely contradict the CONSERVATIVE governments word towards tackling obesity? I mean with McDonalds a mile up the road, a burger King and a KFC (along with other numerous fast food restaurants) in town, is this not enough?

My final point is towards your complete lack of professionalism. It is disgusting that you are the representative for our local area. I do hope your P45 arrives in the post come the next elections.

You sir, have dug your own grease filled grave.

Natalie said...

Wow. At the meeting last night, I thought the misinformed, misguided, disingenuous and disrespectful way in which certain councillors spoke of the very people who voted for them was an eye opener, however you have merely confirmed my view of same. Regardless of whether you are 'for' or 'against' the proposal, there is no excuse for such arrogant comments and sheer disdain for those in the community that disagreed with your opinion, many of whom I suspect will be in your Ward. The next election will be telling for many councillors I suspect, and yes, perhaps you're right, maybe we do need some new blood - councillors that are prepared to listen to their constituents. Now there is a concept that I would definitely love.

Sue said...

Cllr (I use the title loosely)Clifford shame on you. You are elected to support the local people and yes there are people with views for and against, but you needn't sound so smug. You should have more respect for the people you represent. Let's see how smug you are when your ward is cluttered with rubbish and no-one can get through Farnborough with all the traffic congestion.

Richard said...

I can not add anything more than the previous posts, nor do I think you will pay any attention.

However I will be voting at the next election and obviously not for you.

Anonymous said...

David. I note from your tweet earlier that you and your family seem genuinely surprised that so many people are angry and upset at this decision. That shows just how out of touch you are! Many people feel totally let down. By the way, McD's have NOT saved the Tumbledown. Only the facade will survive. I live in Empress ward and there is no way I will vote for you as you are clearly not capable of do the job you were elected to do.

Anonymous said...

Do you live in Farnbrough or Farnham. Because I'm sure you would't want it on your doorstep.

Mark T said...

It appears that someone here has missed the fact he is supposed to be representing his constituents and town council as a whole... is he really this naïve to think that a vote like this supported by insensitive and politically incorrect comments will note rile his voters... or perhaps "our village has finally found its idiot??"

Jack said...

The Aldershot/Farnborough News is not owned by The Guardian. It belongs to Trinity Mirror.

Anonymous said...

It's telling that although most of the comments here are (quite understandably) anonymous, they are also - in the main - far more measured and intelligently expressed than yours, sir.

Whilst my personal interest in the Tumbledown is not as impassioned as many contributors, I am nonetheless shocked at your complacent and, yes, smug posts.

As a voter in your ward, albeit not one who usually makes the time to go to the ballot box for Council elections, be assured that I shall be making the effort next time around. Though my children would also not be bothered to make the trip, I will be bussing them there too.

What an incredibly short-sighted and unpleasant person you have represented yourself to be.

Anonymous said...

There is a fairly obvious message in all this that the current councillors perhaps ought to consider.

Where is the voice of those who are delighted about last nights decision?

I've read the comments so far and I cannot see any comments saying....here here David, "I can't wait to be eating that meaty burger" (or whatever its made of?!)

Where is the passion, drive, determination and sense of a collective community voice all cheering that the application has been granted?

...There isn't right?...why could that be?

Its because there are a great number of the local residents that did not want this as evidenced by the support for the FOTTD campaign. Even those, myself included, who were not hell bent on the idea of a live music venue as such but at least had aspirations of something with a little more imagination than another McD's. Of course there were a small number who did support the Tumbledown Dick becoming a McD's, however strange that concept is to me. The remainder of the locals were either totally unaware as they are disengaged from local politics (not surprising after last nights display) or not bothered.

So we discount the unaware and not bothered as neutral, which leaves those who did not want this, those passionate about local matters, those with engaged minds and open eyes......those who WILL make the effort to visit the polling booths at the next local election as opposed to the "politically disengaged" and the "not bothered"...

Best you get out there and try and engage...

Anonymous said...

If you are going to comment in this manner i would expect an elected public official to understand firstly the facts, that you get hideously wrong about the options for TTDD and the local people, who you evidently hold in disdain and treat as morons. 5000 plus on the petition, 550 plus against yet another McD's.... I work that out as 5.5k votes lost Mr Clifford. Sorry to be fair I should say there were 30ish pro McD representations.... Fair to the local community? Look it up Mr C, while searching for another career.

Nick Udall said...

David

Really inconsiderate post here highlighting the fact that people in a position of power should not do their own pr. Whether you intended to or not you have come across very smug about something which is clearly a delicate subject matter for many.

I agree with you in that I am happy to have seen the site “cleaned up” but a Mcdonalds is exactly the opposite of what this awful town I’m condemned to live in for the rest of my days needs. The streets are awash with budget (dare I say lower class) shops like pound land and abundant with discount shops and greasy spoons.

Mcdonalds (whether you want to acknowledge it or not) is the food equivalent of this and so rather than seek to inspire investment from worthwhile and caring brands you have yet again damaged the community by allowing this to happen. Farnborough needs a transformation the infrastructure is crumbling beneath growing needs of the community and I see no schools, doctors or hospitals being built to support this instead a monument to introduce more strain on the already limited resources.

This site could (and should have) been re purposed as a community centre similar to the Aldershot west end centre but I appreciate that this would not have lined you’re coffers quite to the same degree as Mcdonalds could have - keeping you in earl grey and tweed slacks of which I’m sure you own both in abundance.

Very disappointed with you and will look forward with considerable joy to watch you and your parties hold over the town diminish in the next election.

Nick Udall said...

David

Really inconsiderate post here highlighting the fact that people in a position of power should not do their own pr. Whether you intended to or not you have come across very smug about something which is clearly a delicate subject matter for many.

I agree with you in that I am happy to have seen the site “cleaned up” but a Mcdonalds is exactly the opposite of what this awful town I’m condemned to live in for the rest of my days needs. The streets are awash with budget (dare I say lower class) shops like pound land and abundant with discount shops and greasy spoons.

Mcdonalds (whether you want to acknowledge it or not) is the food equivalent of this and so rather than seek to inspire investment from worthwhile and caring brands you have yet again damaged the community by allowing this to happen. Farnborough needs a transformation the infrastructure is crumbling beneath growing needs of the community and I see no schools, doctors or hospitals being built to support this instead a monument to introduce more strain on the already limited resources.

This site could (and should have) been re purposed as a community centre similar to the Aldershot west end centre but I appreciate that this would not have lined you’re coffers quite to the same degree as Mcdonalds could have - keeping you in earl grey and tweed slacks of which I’m sure you own both in abundance.

Very disappointed with you and will look forward with considerable joy to watch you and your parties hold over the town diminish in the next election.

James said...

I can only echo the sentiment expressed by most here. Your arrogant dismissal of those who opposed yet another corporate fast food joint in our town and the way you needlessly attack the local paper shows an attitude not worthy of a representative of the borough. Is it any wonder Farnborough Town Centre is the state it is with the likes of you in charge? I shall be encouraging all those I know in your ward to read your blog.

Andy Seabrook - Farnborough Resident said...

David Clifford - I am so disappointed in you, not just for your decision but you poor out of step view of the people you are supposed to represent and what we want. Are you on a different planet or something?

This has got to be a spoof page, no-one can be this pig ignorant.

Anonymous said...

Mr Clifford does not understand his constituents and there views - may his political career end soon along with all the other councillors who obviously want to go to the drive through. It will be interesting to hear their responces when the Farnborough Road becomes blocked with traffic due to their blinkered views.

David Clifford said...

Ironic the arguments going on here. The road is going to be blocked with people using McD - but everyone locally is against it!!

But I would still have preffered a Nando resturant. Question: If it had been Nando rather than McD would there have been the same strength of feeling?

Adam Pain said...

What an unbelievable smug, self satisfied, utterly inarticulate and deeply out of touch response. I am aghast that an elected representative would feel it appropriate to speak with such disdain for his own constituents, let alone signing off by reiterating one of the most banal advertising strap lines ever conceived.

Regardless, the real tragedy is the decision itself. Farnborough is a small town that has become more and more culturally bereft over the past two decades, with the promise of decent investment in local infrastructure amounting to very little, except redeveloped retail areas.
Mcdonalds moving into a much cherished local venue, in an area that desperately needs to think of ways to engage younger people to do something positive, is misguided - to put it lightly. Not least because less than a mile down the road from this site is an existing Mcdonalds restaurant. There is already a cathedral of morbid obesity within spitting distance.

So, rightfully, the will of the community was to see The Tumbledown redeveloped as a hub for creative and social endeavour.

How you can be quite so gleeful in your acceptance of the further spread of the cheap, mass produced and culturally irrelevant fodder, served up by an already ubiquitous American moster of commercialised banality is beyond my comprehension.

Disgusting. Much like the vast majority of the "food" which will soon be on sale.

Anonymous said...

You sir are an idiot

Simon said...

I don't see how that is ironic. Ironic that so few people seem to understand the meaning of the word.

Please, keep talking, sir. Your blog is providing PR for the Opposition Parties that money just can't buy. You're proving your ignorance, your detachment from local issues and people, your lack of understanding, and now, your lack of intelligence. Keep it coming.

As a resident of the Farnborough Road, I'm gutted at the prospect of increased levels of traffic, litter and noise. A Nando Restaurant would also carry these prospects. We have commercial food outlets in the town centre and Farnborough Gate, but the lack of a thriving pub and music scene is just embarrassing. If you think the Tumbledown Dick was dingy, wait until we have a 24-hour drive-thru culture, run by one of the World's most ethically disgraceful corporations, right in the middle of town.

At least it may bring jobs - you'll be needing a new one soon.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter what kind of restaurant it is you arrogant arse! What's got everyone's backs up is the total disregard for public opinion and the typical "We know best" attitude. Farnborough does not need another McDonalds! What interests me is how many of the people you claim are "delighted" the pub is not being reopened ever actually set foot inside the pub when it was open? This whole situation stinks of corruption. I hope your 30 pieces of silver tide you over when you hopefully end up unemployed at the next council elections!

Adam Pain said...

David,

Your question: If it had been a Nando restaurant, would there have been the same strength of feeling?

Answer: Have you not read the thread fully, and grasped why people are so disappointed in the result? Yes, there would have been the same strength of feeling - because people didn't want another 'family' restaurant on the site, they wanted to see something that would add cultural and social significance to the area, not allow them to add a delicious corn on the cob for only £1.99.

Seriously, your continued belligerence and complete lack of humility when responding is staggering - to the point I think the real you must currently be chloroformed and tied up in a stationary cupboard - as a militant anarchist has hacked into your Wordpress account and gone about systematically ruining your career and reputation.

Anonymous said...

David '2 Macs' Clifford,

You keep mentioning Nandos - Which makes me wonder if you work for their marketing on the side - and how if this was to be a one of those fine chicken based resturants there wouldn't be half as much bother.

You could be right there, but not for the reason you probably think. At least if this was a Nandos there would only be one in Farnborough!

Chris Haye said...

I can only hazard a guess as to what value adding a second Mcdonalds drive-thru restaurant to Farnborough will be. I suppose the biggest selling point is that people will no longer have to walk the half a mile from the town centre to satiate their burger needs, or indeed drivers won't have to wait at those pesky traffic lights at the end of prospect avenue.

I for one am thrilled that I will now be able to cue for even longer at the already busy Clockhouse roundabout whilt enjoying the enriched cultural factors that McDonalds will bring in the form of the sights and smells. I can't wait!

It seems that the primary motivation for this development is that there have been no viable alternatives put forward for the site, which does rather imply that the Council believes that a second Mcdonalds in better for the community than an empty building. It's plainly obvious that the only people this will benefit are A US owned corporation, the franchise holder, a bunch of kids getting their first taste of working for a multinational retail giant (get used to feeling disposable kids!) and of course the Council, who can give themselves a firm pat on the back for creating jobs and bringing in business rates from the site once again.

Impressive work!

Anonymous said...

"I for one will be extremely pleased to see the area littered with sauce entrusted big mac wrappers at last, and the site used and enjoyed by local teenage boy racers taking their baby mothers on their first 'date'. I'm lovin it...."

B PHIPPS said...

Rearrange these letters to describe the type of people that make these decisions and write blogs like this.

A R S E H L O E S

David Clifford said...

Love Scrabble:

Las Heroes?

Matt Pain said...

Oh dear
Your stupidity is a gift that keeps on giving. Firstly, the suggestion that a change of food chain to something a little more chicken-based would silence your critics is laughable...maybe it was actually a poor attempt at a joke.
With that logic, maybe if a different archaic, self-important and disconnected buffoon wrote this blog we'd all be "lovin' it"
It is also incredible that your attack on a local establishment's lack of imagination and creativity driving you to boredom is then followed up by defending a decision which possesses the exact same qualities.
Irony is not something that's iron-like, you gimp

bill tompkins said...

like beauty, smugness and arrogance are in the eye of the beholder. It is disappointing to see a councillor who I once believed to be one of principle - if not ones I shared - crowing and gloating over a clearly corrupt decision which was so important and so hurtful to so many people. Moreover, you appear not to entirely understand the meaning of 'ironic'. Keep digging.

Adam P said...

David:

Please listen - because you continue to humiliate yourself. Become a statesman - and try and answer the criticisms with a modicum of humility and empathy. It is deeply inappropriate to be so flippant.

Surely, you must be able to understand how:
A) By obsequiously praising your Tory colleague in the blog, your writing appears both biased and flippant.
B) By taking time to point out how 'boring' the local paper is, you have (perhaps inadvertently) implied that local people's news, issues, views and stories are of no interest to you. This appears both arrogant and blinkered.
C) By using the corporate language of the McDonalds, you have virtually stuck your fingers up to a great many of your constituents - again, flippantly dismissing what are very serious, sensitive and grave concerns of local residents.

Or you could ignore the advice entirely and continue to play 'scrabble' (which it isn't by the way, it's an anagram) and continue this pathetic 'la la la, I'm not listening' exercise you appear hellbent on continuing.

The choice is yours. As is the choice of local people to vote for the most capable, in touch and articulate representatives in the next round of local elections.




David Clifford said...

It is so good to have dialogue with such articulate intelligent people who are able to express differing views without dropping to the depths of personal insult.

Thank you - you are a real credit to the Campaign to Save the TDD. You bring back all the memories I had forgotten of the old TDD.

Anonymous said...

Councillor Clifford

Something tells me that you are probably going to have cause to regret the tone of your original post for this blog. You mention that you have been under attack for daring to suggest an alternative view ? You are, of course, perfectly entitled to hold any view that you choose and I absolutely support your right to express it. However, to express it in such terms as you have shows a quite staggering degree of political naivety and the 'I'm lovin it' sign off was both crass and does little to allay some suggestions made on here of an element of collusion with the golden arches.

That the Tumbledown Dick site needed restoration there can be little doubt, it was degenerating rapidly and was an eyesore but that is more about failings on the part of RBC in not ensuring the owners meet their obligations to maintain the buildings than any fault of the supporters of TTD itself. The one thing that Farnborough does NOT need is another fast food drive-through and to express with such glee your contentment that one of the few genuinely old buildings that Farnborough has left is about to be obliterated beggars belief. Some of the ill informed and patronising views expressed by councillors at the development hearing were - frankly - shameful. I have heard a lot about the front of the TTD 'only dating from 1817' as justification for the rest to be pulled down - so a building in which, at it's newest, a soldier returning from the Battle of Waterloo downed an ale or two is not deemed 'old' what nonsense - if that's the yardstick then I look forward to HMS Victory being converted to a new Subway outlet or maybe one of the Nando's you seem so fond of (dreadful place).

Most off-putting of all it seems that you do not even have the courage of your own convictions as, presumably in the face of the flak you have received, you change your "Goodbye Dick hello McD" headline to one which suggests McD has 'saved' TTD. Really....do you honestly feel that people would be appeased by such a clumsy and mealy-mouthed attempt at re-positioning. If that's the best that you can offer then you should seriously consider a ghost writer or, better still, an alternative career.

Whatever your view the tone of your OP and subsequent posts has indeed been smug, haughty, arrogant and woefully out of touch with the mood of the moment. Quite frankly it's people like you who are largely responsible for the lack of engagement that people have with local politics in this country. History teaches us a lot and I would suggest you visit a local museum and see if you can borrow a breastplate and a helm...come doorstepping time at the election you may well find they come in handy.

Some humility mightn't be a bad thing either.

Matt Pain said...

Wow!!...
Maybe when your beloved McDonald's open's you can get some more happy meal toys and throw them out of your pram too.....

Tristan Seume said...

Sounds like you're still bitter that no-one invited you to a gig there.

Tristan Seume said...

Sounds like you're still bitter no-one invited you to a gig there.

Jack Haas said...

And now your opponents can add belligerent sarcasm to the list of charges. Who is advising you on you PR? Seriously, why are you continuing to engage in such a trite and thoughtless manner, instead of writing a well worded, conciliatory and empathetic statement, that at least acknowledges the legitimacy of the concerns raised?

Your belligerence is the root cause of any bad feeling this thread has thrown up. This is politics, lesson one - remember what politics means - 'for the people'.

For the good of community relations, please write something statesmanlike.

the_ruth said...

Wow! I think I may have to move back to Farnborough just to have the pleasure of helping to vote this guy out.

I hope somebody has taken screenshots (or whatever) of this blog as, if he has any sense at all, this will be deleted before elections come around.

Ruth Phillips

Anonymous said...

Better use of the building than a house for spiders!!

Louise said...

Is this a genuine blog by a councillor? The tone in which you address the people you represent is a disgrace.

Nandos, McDs, Burger King etc will all make people unhealthy and sick. A community venue that all generations can use must be a more positive option? Like everything else, public opinion means nothing as the people in charge make the decision based on lining their own pockets. A council that wants MORE fast food junk. What a joke!!!



Anonymous said...

DO you like obese children, more traffic and litter and less places to enjoy a lively music scene?
Well, then- you've achieved that- well done!

Claire said...

I have screenshots of the entire thing.

So you know, if any of you are thinking of running a Don't vote for Clifford campaign or even running as an independent Councillor- I have some ammunition for you right here!

dale cooper said...

Maybe after you've been sufficiently tarred, feathered, and run out of town by your current (soon to be ex-) constituents, you'd like to move to East Sussex.
In my old home town of Crowborough there's an old listed building, a closed down pub in need of renovation. I'm sure with your enviable reputation for social diplomacy and community engagement, you'll be able to broker a deal with a gigantic multinational mechanical meat recovery purveyor, in order to hasten the death of an already blighted town centre.

PS - their local paper is shit too.

Anonymous said...

You do realise that the kind of people you are slagging off on here are generally the people who are more politically active and actually go out to vote.

You're pretty much guaranteeing you'll not be voted in next election as this has almost gone a bit viral on Facebook.

And although you may not feel arrogant or smug you're definitely acting it!

David Clifford said...

Dale

Brilliant.

Seems all local rags owned by big corporations now are going the same way.

Anonymous said...

Uour own poll on this blog asking 'what one thing listed does farnborough need more of? has a majority of 74% for a theater/music venue. Talk about irony!!

Anonymous said...


Your last few comments defy belief...

Oh well - at least you're ensuring they'll be one vacant 'Dick' left in Farnborough

Phil Wareham said...

Is this actually a real blog? If so I can't believe how hopelessly out-of-touch and ungracious David Clifford is with his local populace. Real arrogance on display.

The last thing Farnborough needs is another fast-food joint, there's already plenty of those within a shrt distance of this site. What Farnborough does need is a community venue for music and suchlike, the old pub might have got run-down towards the end of it's days but it did serve a need.

Phil Belcher said...

Great news, just what Farnborough needs! No imagination from anyone on the council. Chicken McTw*ts. Could have been so much more. I'm sure you'll enjoy working there when it opens Cllr.

Anonymous said...

You can hardly blame quite a few people for getting annoyed really. Your blog has missed the entire point of what people who didn't want this outcome were trying to achieve. You kicked off the 'tone' of replies by calling anyone who had an alternative view to yours as 'know it alls'. Nope they are just the people who vote and want to communicate their views to a representative on the Council. The entire blog entry seems to have missed the point about what is ticking a lot of people in the area off. Farnborough is already awash with fast food restaurants. What it doesn't have in abundance is cultural outlets or something different to the norm.

It doesn't matter if it's a McDonalds, KFC, Nando's or whatever in terms of those sorts of restaurants. It's a short drive to access most of those already. The decision is a slap in the face for those who are looking to diversify the options for those wanting to go out in the area. It also looks like a rather lazy decision which just further diminishes any variation in the local landscape and doesn't do much for the already poor image of local government.

By the way, if you blog you are therefore asking for feedback and should expect the electorate to maybe disagree with you, otherwise just set up a website. Poor effort on so many levels.

Phil Belcher said...

Such a shame. Just need someone with a little more imagination to make the decisions. I'm sure the Cllr will enjoy working there when it opens.

David Clifford said...

Hope there is not a suggestion here that working in McDonalds is not something to be proud of? I am very proud of the workers in McDonalds and think they do a great job. I'm lovin them...

Anonymous said...

http://www.rushmoor.gov.uk/councillorcomplaint

Just leave that that for anyone who would like to take this a bit further. Looking at the Code of Conduct it seems already David Cliffords childlike retort could be considered to have broken.

1.1. Do treat others with respect.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad to see the councillor has nothing more important to do than follow the comments on his hastily re-titled blog post. Farnborough district must be a very efficient & well-kept place, I must say.
I would suggest he be placed in charge of the highways department as he seems very adept at digging holes. Eminently more so than statesmanship or respect for his constituants.
Jolly good show.

thomas mcmanners said...

Due to my place of birth, it has the largest labour majority in the UK, I was brought up to believe all Tories were fundamentally evil.

I have until now had no evidence to disprove this, However I have to say that I cannot fault a word you have written.

My congratulatins to you and the other councillors for passing this and saving the TDD. It will tidy up the area, bring in 65 jobs

The 10s of thousands of people who want it and will pass through their doors will also spill over to the parade of shops opposite and increase their economic viability.

I am fundamentally at a loss to see why anyone would want to vote against the improvement of our local community.

Keep up the good work

David Clifford said...

Thanks Tom - couldn't agree more. My family are from the same area, and so pleased I am a Tory councillor.

nick fox said...

How dreadful knowledge of the truth can be when there’s no help in the truth.
Sophocles

Andy Goymer said...

I’m more proud of the residents of Farnborough for trying to secure a historic local landmark for a community use.

I find the general tone of your posts to be disgusting. The belittling of any local group by an appointed official is outrageous. This was a genuine heartfelt campaign with legitimate concerns over a community asset and should have been treated with the respect it deserved. You don’t have to personally agree with the campaign to appreciate all of the effort and well meaning that has gone into it.

You have shown no sympathy or empathy or gratitude with the campaigners – who have been a fine example of the ‘Big Society’ your party so desperately wants. The government says that it wants communities to take pride in their towns/cities/villages by getting behind local causes and having a say on the facilities that are on offer. Well, they did, they were ignored and now it feels that they are being laughed at.

Many of these campaigners may think twice before speaking up for other local issues in the future due to the contempt shown by those in authority. I think that is a great shame.

Local councillors are appointed by local people to act on their behalf. We don’t expect you to win every fight but we expect you to listen, understand be fair and unbiased.

I appreciate that not all residents liked the old pub/venue and that some of those residents didn’t want to see it re opened the same as it was. I understand that. It’s a fair point. However, I will be astonished if you can show me evidence that those same residents wanted this as an alternative.

Anonymous said...

Dear David

ould you be any more arrogant? Clearly you have not read the paper for a good few years if you thinks it's still part of the Guardian group.

So much for being in touch with local people and keeping update with what goes on your town and your ward.

Anonymous said...

There we go. The old adage, the price of everything and the value of nothing....in action before your very eyes.

Anonymous said...

Now, now Tom.

You have more bias than most here, seeing as you have previously made no secret of your distain for the people who frequented the Tumbly.

You are also on the 'Farnborough Society' committee, a civic society that has actively campaigned against the Tumbly in a very un-civic way, forgetting key areas of your your own constitution in the process:

(i) To promote high standards in the natural, built, social and economic environment in or affecting the area of benefit;

(ii) To raise awareness of local issues, the geography, history, natural history and architecture of the area of benefit;

(iii) To encourage the conservation, protection, development and improvement of features of historic or public interest in the area of benefit.

TFS put their vested interests and personal prejudice above the community they claim to represent.

Anonymous said...

"The 10s of thousands of people who want it and will pass through their doors will also spill over to the parade of shops opposite and increase their economic viability"

What - like the McD's at Farnborough gate has 'driven business' to the other parade of shops at Farnborough gate who are.......let me see.....OUT OF BUSINESS !!

Oh restrain your imbecility, do.

Anonymous said...

Relax everyone! Just think of the positives: in 50-100 years we'll all be dead and none of this will matter to our descendants as they fight off kim Jong un's poorly built robot army in the sun-bleached, globally-warmed waste land that was our home and cllr David's now obese grandchildren shelter from the conflict under the giant statue of ms beauchamp on her high horse, making blankets from the Big Mac wrappers from the old McDonald's that once stood on that sight, and a child will look wistfully at the now luminous orange sunset and the consider how things were better in the past.

Anonymous said...

If they were building a Nandos there instead of a McDonalds I'd be bulldozing down the bloody thing myself.

Anonymous said...

Typical Tory. I don't know why anyone's surprised - they think anyone on less than £100,000 per year is scum.

Anonymous said...

I hope you choke on you chicken nuggets mate

James said...

Thomas Mcmanner said:
"The 10s of thousands of people who want it and will pass through their doors will also spill over to the parade of shops opposite and increase their economic viability."
As David Clifford agrees with you can either of you genuinely explain how?(Without the 'trickle-down' mantra please)
As the majority of the shops opposite are independant take-aways, don't you think it is more likely the exact opposite will occur? Their econmic viablity must surely be at risk with this news?

(As for your preference for Nandos, David Clifford...please... you cannot be serious!I can only guess you never have home cooked food!)

Andy Clark said...

I would like to work out how Cr Clifford can be so confident in his abilities as a councillor to know that his arrogant and smug attitude is not going to affect his re-election chances. I personally would've thought that some more tact and diplomacy would be more becoming of an elected official.

Obviously as Tumble supporter I am biased, I accept that, and Cr Clifford could therefore ignore everything I say, however my advice would be to think about the PR before opening your mouth, think about the floating voter or the marginal.

Clearly not lovin' it

Anonymous said...

Terrible decision, the last thing Farnborough needs is yet another McDonadls.

Anonymous said...

Unbelievable tosh from a tory. I really hope the people of your ward gather up all the mcdonalds litter found in their gardens driveways and paths and deliver it to you. This was a poor decision made by biased, uninformed and frankly prejudiced councillors with scant regard for their constituents. I hope this post ends your political career.

Tony Lea and I can let you have my mobile number if you want. said...

Even though I don't reside in your ward but very close by I will certainly be actively complaining to ensure that you never get re-elected again. You are a disgrace to Farnborough.

David Clifford said...

Lots not well informed here. This application was supported by Labour and Tory councillors. Sorry to dissappoint you

Andy Piper said...

Mr Clifford - as a Farnborough resident and worked since 1997 I have to tell you directly that I'm deeply disappointed. I'm a higher rate taxpayer and a "natural" supporter of your party but you disgust me! In fact, Rushmoor and Farnborough planning policies and actions have appalled me. I have a history degree (MA Oxon 1997) and recent decisions on both Firgrove and the Tumbly are directly related to my own decision to leave Rushmoor permanently and to take my economic value elsewhere. I still own property in your ward, but certainly would NEVER vote for you again particularly in the light of your gloating blog post! Good luck at the next local election...

Anonymous said...

One day, Cllr Clifford, you will read your blog entry again and you will be deeply embarrassed.

Anonymous said...

And a new drive in/out facility yards from the already congested Clockhouse Roundabout? Genius. Fitting, perhaps, that we should name the perma-jam that will result along that stretch of the Farnborough Road after you?

thomas mcmanners said...

I for one would be happy for for the "let's post macdonalds rubbish to David' to go ahead. Let's see how much he is "lovin it" after that.

By the way David do you think the abbey would be a good site for a Burger King, religion is on the downcline in this country so there is no need for it, and rather than give people a placeto learn some history will give them somewhere to work low waged jobs instead!

Let's hope in time far borough can be nominated for Britains Fattest Town!

I'm lovin' it!


Anonymous said...

That wasn't just a building, that was my home. I lived and worked there for many years. Even if this response you still sound smug, your unbelievable. I would rather vote for the BNP than for you and I'm black and follow Islam.

David Clifford said...

Hi Andy

Good you have a sense of proportion and perspective on this issue. Not as articulate as I would have expected an MA Oxon, but I would not dream of questioning you...

It is clear from your post your business talent, and the Borough, I am sure, will be sad to lose such "economic value".

David Clifford said...

Dear all,

Just a few small points worth reiterating:

1. I am not sponsored by McDonald's and am not ignorant enough to suggest that supporters are sponsored by anarchists, rent a mob or a brewery. So can we be a bit more grown up (I assume most of you are over 18?)

2. Just because I disagree with you does not make me a bad person or you a bad person. Nice people can have disagreements. Nice people also use nice language, especially as children read my blog. Thank you.

3. Confessing to like McDonalds does not make you evil. If you have eaten a Big Mac and feel dirty - its OK. There is no long term damage.

4. I am delighted that we local councillors met early with McDonalds and made clear we would like to see as much preserved of the building as possible. That view was later supported when the campaign started. So we have some common ground.

5. I did not worry who owned the building, so long as it was not the Council and so long as the building was cared for and cleaned up after years of neglect. I personally would have preferred Nandos to McDonalds.

6. I am not sponsored by Nandos or taken payments from them.

7. I am not on the Planning Committee - so did not vote.

8. The planning committee was split on the vote, with all parties voting for and against the decision. That means Labour and Tory Cllrs voted for and against this application. That means it was not a politically motivated decision.

9. The Borough spent a great deal of time making sure that the process was open, transparent and fair to all.

10. We live in a democracy not some Stalinist state. So sometimes you lose a vote and sometimes you win. I know not being victorious is difficult at times (I have lost often). It does not mean that you were wrong necessarily and it does not mean you did not run a great campaign. It just means the people making the decision voted for the apposing view.

11. When people welcome a result - it is not a personal attack on the campaign that lost. Such a view is immature and childish and not worthy of a good campaign.

Anonymous said...

Dear Councillor Clifford

Just a few important points worth reiterating;

Dear all,

Just a few small points worth reiterating (in answer to your own list):

1. PERHAPS THE DEBATE MAY TAKE ON A MORE MATURE MANTLE IF YOU STOPPED INSULTING AND BELITTLING THE CONTRIBUTORS

2. SEE ABOVE

3. NO LONG TERM DAMAGE ? CLEARLY YOU ARE BETTER INFORMED THAN THE GOVT CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER WHO HAS SPOKEN OUT ABOUT THE LONG TERM DANGERS OF FAST FOOD CONSUMPTION (NOT TO MENTION THE V£Ms SPENT ON THE CHANGE FOR LIFE CAMPAIGN...ALSO BUPA'S OWN CMO DR ZOLLINGER-READ RECENTLY HAD THIS TO SAY;

"Fast food restaurants are changing the way we live, affecting our health for the worse and putting a strain on our environment. Who is going to be held responsible in the long run? I highly doubt it'll be the fast food restaurants themselves".

YOUR'S IS AN INTERESTING VIEWPOINT WHICH I"M SURE YOUR PARTY, ON HEARING IT, WOULD START LOOKING AT THEIR COLLECTIVE FEET AND SHUFFLING NERVOUSLY....REMEMBER MR SELWYN-GUMMER & HIS ATTEMPTS TO FEED HIS DAUGHTER A BURGER ?

4. FOR SOMEONE WHO PROFESSES TO HAVE TAKEN SUCH AN ACTIVE INTEREST IN TTD WHY WERE YOU NOT THERE AT THE MEETING TO SHARE YOUR VIEWS AND ENLIGHTEN US WITH YOUR 'EXCELLENT WORK' ?

5. THE BUILDING COULD AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN MAINTAINED BY THE OWNERS HAD RBC BEEN MORE ATTENTIVE IN DISCHARGING ITS DUTY OF ENFORCEMENT. HMMM NANDO'S OR MCDONALDS, IT'S A BIT LIKE CHOOSING BETWEEN ACNE OR HALITOSIS.

6. I'M SURE NANDO'S ARE BREATHING A SIGH OF RELIEF IF THIS BLOG IS ANY EVIDENCE OF YOUR PR CAPABILITIES

7. SO? I'M NOT A JOURNALIST BUT I STILL LIKE TO READ THE PAPERS TO KEEP INFORMED

8. NO IT WAS A POOR DECISION TAKEN BY POORLY INFORMED COUNCILLORS WHO MADE LITTLE ATTEMPT TO READ THE BACKGROUND TO THE TD AND OFFERED LITTLE BUT PERSONAL PREJUDICE, HALF TRUTHS AND SPURIOUS SWEEPING STATEMENTS IN PLACE OF CONSIDERED EVIDENCE BASED ON FACT

9. IF IT HAD ACHIEVED BUT ONE OF THOSE OBJECTIVES WE WOULD, LIKE AS NOT, BE HAVING THIS DEBATE

10.IF WE LIVED IN A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY (WE DO NOT) THEN THE SHAMEFUL DEBACLE OF 9TH OCT WOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN PLACE. INCIDENTALLY 'OPPOSING' IS SPELT WITH AN 'O' NOT AN 'A'.

11. WELCOMING A RESULT WITH HUMILITY AND PAYING TRIBUTE TO THE VIEWS OF OTHERS AND THEIR RIGHT TO EXPRESS THEM (WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THE VIEWS OR NOT) IS THE MARK OF A GRACIOUS AND INTELLIGENT RESPONSE. AS IT THE RECOGNITION THAT THE RESULT WILL HAVE UPSET MANY PEOPLE AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO RE-UNITE A COMMUNITY AND HEAL RIFTS PRESENTS. SADLY THIS OPPORTUNITY WAS LOST IN FAVOUR OF A GLOATING, ARROGANT, SELF-SATISFIED BLOG POST WHICH MOCKED THE LOCAL COMMUNITY AND RUBBED SALT INTO THE WOUNDS. THE 'LOVIN IT' SIGN OFF WAS BORDERING ON CRETINOUS AND - FOR ALL THE GOOD WORK YOU MAY/MAY NOT HAVE ACHIEVED IN YOUR CAREER TO DATE - YOU WILL NOW BE REMEMBERED FOR DOING MORE TO DRIVE A WEDGE BETWEEN THE LOCAL POPULATION AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT THAN EVEN THE GOLDEN ARCHES COULD MANAGE.

I THINK YOU SHOULD GIVE SERIOUS CONSIDERATION TO YOUR POSITION, OR AT LEAST TAKE A LEAF FROM MARK TWAIN....

"Better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt"

Sincerely

A local (ex-tory) voter.

Bruce Wayne said...

You fail to see it isn't your welcoming of the winning campaign that is the issue, it was the smugness you exuded throughout everything you've posted here.

You seem completely oblivious to what you've done to upset people, even though they are telling you very blatantly. If you are oblivious to such a simple thing as that, then it calls into question how oblivious you are to local matters.

Also... What is with the constant reference to Nandos in almost ever one of your responses?! Is this some inside joke?

At the end of the day I will be submitting my complaint with Rushmoor not because of a pub (I admit I never visited but was a favourite place for many, and held a huge amount of history for the people born and raised in farnborough) but because of the genuine concern I have for the Councillor of the ward I am a part of.

David Clifford said...

Dear Bruce,

I would have to be as blind as a bat not to see the excitement caused here.

My aspirations entering politics were to be more a super hero than some evil adversary. Perhaps we can discuss this next time I knock on your door?

No idea about the Nando reference I am not good at subtle inside jokes. Although I do admit to a warped sense of humour - I think it is a protection mechanism, as at times I can be extremely sensitive to criticism....How do you cope?

Anonymous said...

David,

Difficult to even know where to start, I guess the only positive thing can be is that your tone is so appallingly derogatory of all the people who gave up their time to save their pub it's the only time I've ever seen people be bothered to post a politicians blog! If you want to come off as a smug uncaring b*****d you've succeeded superbly. I guess the only good thing to come of this is you'll be gone next year and I'm afraid the only words you're likely to get from turning up on peoples doorsteps from now on are F and off, I'm sure a man so clearly superior to the members of his borough can work out the rest. On the plus side at least there'll be a job opportunity in your new favourite fast food establishment...

David

Dave R said...

I haven't been involved in the Save the Tumbledown Dick campaign but I know a lot of my good friends have.

I must admit I'm really quite shocked and appalled by the flippancy and lack of sensitivity in your blog post and subsequent comments. You must surely appreciate how passionate the supporters of the Tumbledown were and what the place meant to them? Why be so deliberately inflammatory? Do you not have a PR person you could have spoken to before making the post?

This hasn't gone well for you.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mr Clifford.

I don't even live in Farnborough.

Just thought I'd let you know I think you're a smug Tory pillock and this knowledge is not just limited to your neighbourhood.

Your days in power are numbered.

Fuck off.

Yours faithfully,

Mike.

Bruce Wayne said...

My coping mechanism?

Well I dress like a bat and fight criminals. Which I have to say still seems a lot more saner than the political career PR suicide you are presently engaging in.

Just admit to the smug tone, show some humility, and maybe people will leave you to enjoy the abandons you so love.

Ronald McDonald said...

Don't worry David I, and the obese, still love you!

By the way I've left the briefcase of cash for you in the usual place.

David Clifford said...

Hi Bruce

Thought I knew the name from somewhere.

Very aware of my faults and happy to admit when I am wrong - but not smug. Will admit to attacks of sarcasm. I also do not take myself too seriously, so almost unoffendable. One would be foolish to interpret that as someone that does not listen to or consider carefully differing views.

Finally, I recognise the existence of superior beings, so am not a 'know all'- a pleasure to hear from you.

Thank you for making a serious and good point in a light hearted way.Very refreshing.

David Clifford said...

Hi Ron

At the Phylis Tuckwell then? That is where all my spare cash goes.

Ronald McDonald said...

Good to hear you haven't spent all the last deposit!

If this is spare then I'll just hang on to it, I hear aldershot might want to tear down the Wellington statue, it'd be a great location !

David Clifford said...

Mike

Thanks for the articulate and well put argument so typical of Conservative Party opponents. Good to know you are not on our side.

Amar said...

To the person who created this hilarious, spoof blog.

Good job convincing everyone that this is a real blog, from a councillor who was voted in by the people he serves. You haven't got me fooled though.

There is no way someone who serves the public would be so rude and smug about a decision that have upset so many people. That would be political suicide surely? Good effort though- keep on trolling!

Anonymous said...

That's quite alright, sir.

I believe it's important that people should know when their elected representative treats them with the same sort of disdain one would a set of unwashed anal beads.

Regards,

Mike [evil Lib Dem]

John Fashanu said...

Hi Councillor,

John Fashanu here. I was just wondering if there were any likeable Tories called Dave?

All the best,

Fash

Donna Wallace said...

You really think keeping the front wall is saving the Tumbly?! An historic building set at the heart of Farnborough is being destroyed for a junk food outlet instead of a community venue for live music. The reason the building is in a dreadful state is because RBC allowed Bride Hall to allow (even encourage by putting large holes in the roof) the building to fall into ruin. You have ignored public opinion. As for Gareth, I am appalled. I thought he was a man of moral standing who wanted to represent the residents od Farnborough with integrity. Instead, he has turned out to be another Tory sleaze set on a career in Parliament, for which he is clearly well suited. You purport to represent my ward. I hope to God you are ejected at the next election.

Pete said...

I would like to congratulate you for writing this blog. It has truly shown you up to be the fool that you are. I am glad that so many people not necessarily involved in the Tumbledown campaign have seen that you are not only a smug and patronising man with most definitely a warped sense of humour, but that you care so little about the people who voted for you in the first place. well done!

Anonymous said...

I'm on outsider to this debate but one thing is apparent, and that is your dislike of the previous use of the building and the people who campaigned to save it. The blog is gloating, you might as well have shouted from the heading 'Look...I won!'. It shows disdain for the people who put you in a job, so it's not surprising that there's a general feeling that you won't be there long.

I feel sorry for the people of Farnborough that the best they can get is another fast food outlet. Do you live in Farnborough? I suspect not.

Kieran said...

David,

I realise this is your blog and you are entitled to publish whatever you like within reason. However, if this blog is there to keep your constituents up to date on what you've been doing then I struggle to understand this edition.

You did absolutely nothing in this case. Where were you 6 years ago when it was clear the pub needed a lot of work doing to it and Spirit Group were willfully neglecting it? As the local Councillor surely you should have been engaging with them on behalf of the pub? I say this as many of the staff of the pub lived there too, so you were effectively neglecting your constituents. When the pub closed they lost not only their jobs, but their homes too. Thankfully, you'll only lose your job as Councillor at the next election. As much as I despise you at the moment, I wouldn't want to see you on the street.

Yours

Kieran Dimmick

Jack Coff said...

"can we be a bit more grown up"

Says the Tory troll sitting in a darkened room, getting off on all the people responding to him - and "lovin' it".

Different strokes for different folks, eh.

Simon Taylor said...

Funny how so many have commented that they will not be voting for David Clifford at the next local elections.

I doubt that they did in the first place, also they won't be voting for him (nor will anyone else) at the next local elections. That's a given. If they understood how local council worked, they'd understand why...

Anonymous said...

Is about time we had somebody who can stand up for themselves be in charge (of some extent) Lets face it Farnborough has alot of problems whether it be empty shops, immigrants or benefit huggers!..

I am only 22 but my opinion still counts right?... Im not overly concerned as to what happens to the tdd but im glad something is finally getting done to brighten the town up as it is boring... i've lived in Farnborough my whole life and never do i choose to go into town over Fleet or Camberley or even London just because they are nicer places to be.

David Clifford said...

Thank you 22yr old Farnborough resident for posting. You are not a minority and one of my jobs is standing up for those who sometimes feel intimidated to make their views heard.

I am happy to take flak from the intolerant and over excited that appear to have thrown perspective and reason into the gutter.

Along with some of the trash posted here, I am delighted by the quiet and dignified support I have received. That does not make me feel smug, it makes me feel incredibly humble to be an elected representative and determined to ensure those with soft voices get heard.

Thank you for taking the time to post. Your views count and are listened to.

Richard Grindon said...

Astounding. Reading the tone in which you reply and converse with people is simply unprofessional. I say unprofessional, as you seem to have completely forgotten and neglected the fact that you are a councillor.

I live many miles away in Derbyshire, but due to the seriousness of you behaviour it has come to my, and many others attention.

I have great sympathy for your constituents, who regardless of the vote have been treated in such an appalling, sarcastic, and demeaning manner by the words on this blog.

I will certainly be sharing this shameful display with my friends and colleagues in the Midlands area. Displays like this will lose support not just for you, but your party as a whole.

David Clifford said...

Simon

Very astute of you to pick that up. The ignorant will not have a clue what you are on about.

That said, some posts above do demonstrate clearly the failings of the campaign, and we Councillors must accept some blame for not making the options and opportunities available clearer and easier for people to understand.

It also demonstrates the link between ignorance and anger.

The most angry appear to be the most ignorant.

And the most offensive are in my experience the people ironically most likely to "take offence".

This will no doubt be proved in the next wave of posts!!

Phil Wareham said...

David, please stop calling your electorate ignorant as a simple way to just brush their opinions aside - there are some valid concerns and opinions in this comments section against yet another fast food restaurant trading in the town centre, and the loss of a venue that promoted live music in the community (even if 'those Tumbly people' do seem to cause you such distain, as you've inferred).

Luckily I moved out of Rushmoor a number of years ago so your council doesn't represent me any more, but you've got to admit you need to work on your people skills and PR - a lot.

Greg Mitchell said...

"I am only 22 but my opinion still counts right?... Im not overly concerned as to what happens to the tdd but im glad something is finally getting done to brighten the town up as it is boring... i've lived in Farnborough my whole life and never do i choose to go into town over Fleet or Camberley or even London just because they are nicer places to be."

Interesting that you have seized upon this comment as affirmative support for the change of usage. Do you think it likely that a 22 year old is suddenly going to start frequenting this shabby town you supposedly represent, just because a drive thru McDonald's has been given planning consent? Especially as the other 'nicer' places mentioned all have their very own McDonald's "restaurant" to entice his custom. I doubt it will make a blind bit of difference. A local, well maintained arts and entertainment venue might have done the trick, however.

However, I am glad to see the site will be cleared up - an eyesore that BRC had been extremely sluggish to respond to.

But I still think you are missing the point of the vast majority of the anger being directed your way. The decision is not the issue - your tone is. And by continuing to refer to people as intolerant and over excited is not really helping your cause. You are not personally to blame for a McDonald's taking over the site, of course. Nor does your desire to see a Nando's on the site make you a bad person. But your ungainly dismissal of genuine concerns, questions and criticisms by your own constituents does.

You owe a lot of people an apology, as your original blog post was inflammatory - as has been very articulately communicated to you on a number of occasions. Yes, some people have overstepped a mark and have slung mud back in your direction with added velocity, which is equally as reprehensible - but by praising the conduct of the council, employing a constant tone of sarcasm and signing off your post with 'I'm Lovin' It', you must surely have expected something of a reaction? Or has the last decade of expenses scandals, exposed backhanders and the subsequent erosion of trust people feel towards their elected representatives entirely gone over your head?

Anonymous said...

As a constituent, I would expect a more statesmanlike attitude from my local councillor. I would expect some empathy towards and understanding of those who wanted what would appear to be a better solution as to what do do with the TTDD, even if you don't agree and even of they were in a minority (and I am not sure they are). I would not expect the language of the general public to avoid personal insults (good as that might be), but I would expect your response as a councillor to be concilatory and to start mending the divisions and anger this issue has caused.

James said...

This blog has reached its conclusion: those of us who didn't want a Mcdonalds are "ignorant and offensive"
Accept it and move on...

Anonymous said...

I am again amazed at the comments left by people on this page. Throughout the "Save The Tumbledown Dick" campaign, any comment made that is not in line with what the "Friends" want to read is met with hostility, anger and abusive comments.

They seem to have this perception that everyone in Farnborough is up in arms over this redevelopment of the Tumbledown Dick site. If that genuinely was the case, why were there only around 500 objections to the development? That is an incredibly small percentage.

The silent majority (the ones who made no comment either way), clearly don't really care what happens to this site, as they didn't make a comment during the ample time that the council allowed (even extending beyond the usual timeframe!).

Once the site is opened as a McDonald's, we will no doubt see this silent majority happily using the site.

Again, it amazes me that throughout the proposals, those against the redevelopment in to a McDonald's have on one hand claimed that nobody wants it, but then on the other hand, are very concerned about the traffic impact it will have. If traffic is perceived to be such a problem, then it's clear that people very much do want it, and there is a clear demand for the McDonald's (whilst this is a material planning matter, it does ensure the future viability of the site).

But the continued personal attacks have just made those who were against the McDonald's application look very silly. I am confident that Cllr David Clifford won't see any impact to his popularity because of a small minority (and reading through the comments, it seems most of those people moaning aren't even based in Farnborough!).

For those who don't live here - come and drive past the building every day for a number of years and see if you then wouldn't want it developed in to something useful.

The only people the "Friends" should be angry about is themselves - they were always one step behind where they should have been, and everything they did was retrospective.

David Clifford said...

I will leave the last word with the silent majority post above. This post gave a great insight into both sides of the argument. Thank you to all those who contributed.