Sunday, 31 March 2013

New campaign group supporting a McDonald's at the Tumbledown Dick

Making a failed Pub family friendly?
As is often the case, we now have two campaigns on Facebook running with strong views about the Tumble Down Dick.

The anti McDonald Group - can be visited at:
Anti McDonald

The Pro McDonald Group - can be visited at:
Pro McDonald

Some see the choice between obese kids throwing litter on the streets or drunk youths vomiting on the streets. It will remain for the wise Councillors involved to reach a decision, which is inevitably going to upset one section at least in the community. I remain confident that our Planning Committee will fully explore the facts and reach the right decision.

What is the average resident view?


Anonymous said...

About time. Fed up from hearing just from rent a mob.

Anonymous said...

Personally, and judging by the attendance of these groups so far - the 'silent majority' are probably not in favour of McDonalds. Everyone knows they are a blight wherever they turn up and very few are prepared to show support for them or create something concrete, like a petition. Even the most zealous confine themselves to trolling people who actually give a damn instead.

Most people just want something to happen to the building, and who can blame them? It is a bad joke that this has been allowed to happen.

Had our local authority stood up to the developers who have so deliberately done this and had they used the powers that were available to them to protect historic buildings from predation, it is quite likely that none of us would be discussing it at all, because the Tumble Down Dick would have found itself in the hands of an organisation that appreciates its true value long ago.

There seems to be a scramble to prove how honourable everyone has been ahead of the upcoming planning permission fight, but the facts show some woeful mistakes, obstruction and most of all, a complete disregard for where we came from, why this town is even here and why we need to remember it.

Some people cant see past the money or risk of failure, and use this to justify giving in to whatever is easiest - the 'pro' group being the very spirit of this apathy, and opportunism.

Rushmoor BC should be ashamed, and if McDonalds manage to get their way, people will be making sure that what happened to bring it about does not get lost or glossed over.

Anonymous said...

The big difference is that nobody who has been involved in the campaign to save this building has done so fir money. Money is of course important if it is to be saved and pay its way, but no amount of money justifies the vandalism of Farnborough history.

Rent a mob? Dont make me laugh.

Most people involved do have much better things to be doing, but instead they are fighting a fight RBC did not have the stomach for. Maybe you dont care about history, but some of us do, and are prepared to give time up for that.

You have given a few words from your keyboard. Bravo.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and Cllr Clifford, describing a pub as 'failed' when evidence exists to the contrary, does little for your credibility on this matter. The not so secret truth is that it was able to profit from just one club night a week, the other six days were all bonus.

The pub company had the oppotunity to sell, but carried on paying the huge lease for several years, despite being crippled by debt from their reckless expansion in the preceding decade. A bit odd?

Why sit on it? Did RBC demand to know why? By sheer fluke, the people they were leasing from now stand to make a lot more money than they otherwise would from the sale, because the building has been left to rot.

Make your own conclusions, I'm just laying out the inconvenient facts.

Anonymous said...

I am a little disgusted by some of the things I have read on the Support the McDonalds page.

They have said many times they are in fact not against what Save the Tumbledown want to achieve and yet their group seems to be largely made up of members who wish to just air any grievance they have had with any member of FOTTD.

I have seen numerous posts that have been copy and pasted from the Save the Tumbledown page with every inch of that of that criticized and essentially bad mouthed by members of that group.

If they are for a McDonalds, why are they not presenting anything towards that aim, why does it appear that their sole purpose is to discredit the FOTTD?

I would be delighted to be able to read a counter argument that had some coherence, some sense to it but instead of presenting us with facts as to what they think McDonalds can do to help the community etc, they are instead criticizing those that do want to try.

The crazy thing is, some of those members do want a music venue, I myself have received a pm from someone in that group saying how they want a music venue, that same person has named members on the Support group, sent abusive pms to members, threatened violence, slagged them off and yet still wants to be a part of the FOTTD and Save the Tumbledown as a music venue.

So truly, I think they are people with a bee in their bonnet as if they had a proper argument to give, they would not feel the need to insult a group of people, incidentally a group of people who do care, at every available turn.

As with all things, there are some nasty elements there and I for one will not be throwing my lot in with a rag tag bunch of people who are pissed off for some inexplicable reason.
So I ask them, what exactly are you doing to make Farnborough a better place?

Anonymous said...

The pro-McDonald's group is simply a spoiling operation.

Can there really be people who say, I want a McDonald's, I want my town to be despoiled, I want to eat rubbish food that makes me fat and gives me type 2 diabetes, litter everywhere, traffic congestion, who wants to see what little heritage left in the town destroyed?

C'mon David, get in the real world. I know councillors tend to be completely out of touch with reality and as thick as two short planks, but at least you have shown a little more sense than this in the past.

I have yet to find anyone either in favour of seeing The Tumbledown Dick destroyed or want to see a Drive-Thru McDonald's. Indeed they are horrified and they are pleased to see that at long last Farnborough residents have got off their backsides and are prepared to fight.

What they are also sick of is seeing the town destroyed by developers and a council that gets into bed with developers and falls over backwards to push through what they want.

What have we gained with the destruction of half of Farnborough town centre? Absolutely nothing.

In Aldershot we have the ugly Westgate or Waste Gate as local retailers are calling it draining money out of the local economy and destroying the town centre.

The Queen Hotel is now boarded up and derelict.

Strange how it is not listed as a building of local importance, as is not The Tumbledown Dick and The Ship Inn.

Anonymous said...

I understand that the best way to save the building is to have a pub protection policy, I would expect the FoTTD to push that forward? They may have to force a judicial review, but surely that will do the trick?

They also have said that they have a viable business proposal for the site, again I would expect that the owners would be interested in that, after all, they are interested in making money.

Anonymous said...

Never mind a pub protection policy - it is still an optional bit of legislation at the moment.

How about a building protection policy instead? Hang on! we already have one of those but 'forgot' to put the Tumbledown on the list at a very opportune time.

BrideHall have a legal arrangement with McDonalds. They are not going to talk to anyone until that is either dropped or rejected.

Anonymous said...

Why is their no pub protection policy in place? As required by national planning policies?

Look to Cambridge for an excellent policy, which has already saved several local pubs. But then the difference in Cambridge is that they have planners with vision, who care more about their heritage than helping greedy developers make a fast buck.

The All Party Parliamentary pub group has written to the Council asking the same question: Why no pub protection policy? It will be interesting to see their response, and please publish on this blog.

Why is The Tumbledown Dick not listed locally when it meets the criteria and any building that meets the criteria has to be listed?

But it is not the only building of local importance not listed. To the growing list of omissions must be added The Ship Inn and The Queen Hotel (derelict and boarded up).

Strange how buildings ripe for redevelopment, opportunities for greedy developers to make a fast buck, do not get listed.

As others have noted, a few trolls setting up a facebook page is not a campaign.

Anonymous said...

What will be a disaster is if the sale to McDonald's is blocked, and then the group can't raise the money needed to buy the property. It could then simply lie vacant and derelict for years to come and continue to be a blight on Farnborough's town centre. What we need are guaranteed alternatives so that the campaign can have their go, but if they fail, something will happen to tidy the place up.